While I didn’t hate “Family Remains” (4x11), it definitely left me wearing my HUH face and with an unsatisfied feeling. It was a disturbing MotW episode, with solid acting and a lots of hide-behind-the-pillow moments. I liked seeing the boys post-hunt and sleeping in the car. I liked the subtle Sam and Dean snarkiness (“Know it all”). I thought the plot, although very “Flowers in the Attic” V.C. Andrew-like, was okay. The exception was unveiling of the older brother, which Carver tried to foreshadow by planting this image (aren’t they both wearing dresses?):
Fair enough. But I thought it would’ve been creepier if the siblings had been identical twins. Not only would a single pregnancy have been the easiest way to explain the back story instead of multiple incestuous babies (that brother looked and sounded years older than the sister), it would’ve explained why the “ghost” appeared to move so quickly from inside to outside the house. Plus, showing the “ghost” in multiple places inside the house almost instantaneously would’ve been a more effective way to foreshadow the plot twist. It certainly would’ve been felt more earned having two girls crawling out of the woodwork instead of a never-seen-before brother launching out of the shadows.
But my main gripe isn’t with the nit-picky details of the surface plot or what Sam and/or Dean did or didn’t say. My issues are rooted in things that stretch beyond the merits and failings of single MotW episode broken by a team, written by one staff writer and their assistants, and overseen by Kripke. “Family Remains” is symptomatic of things I’ve been scratching my head about for a while, things like the overall story pacing and story telling efficiency, in what—over the last two seasons—seems to have become the formulaic “MotW” episode, and the writers smashing together of “MotW” episodes with loosely related characterization and mytharc reveals with their hammers. And these things combined have me wondering about execution of the rest of the season and what we’ll be left with after 4x22 fades to black.
I think “Family Remains” could’ve been great stand-alone episode. And by stand alone, I literally mean stand-alone: void of any mytharc, free of consequential emotional revelations, and without any attempts to hammer in a misplaced and awkward final scene … an awesome stand-alone on par with “Nightshifter”. But the final few minutes unbalanced this episode for me. The repetition of Dean pouring his heart out to Sam next to the Impala had the same effect as those ponderous early S3 Sam-and-Dean-fight-while-driving-in-the-I
While I don’t have a problem with Dean sharing and caring and furthering his emotional journey, I’m equally annoyed that such an important scene was so sloppily tacked on like an afterthought. It would’ve been more resonant at the end of “Heaven and Hell”, or the final scene of “Heaven and Hell” should’ve been reserved for this episode. Either way, the two scenes should’ve been joined because they’re the same conversation: Dean revealing to Sam what happened in Hell and his admission of guilt and shame at what he did under the duress of torture.
Dragging out the conversation over multiple episodes diluted it, reduced its impact. Kripke needs to stop holding back and teasing. He needs to hit the plot points square on and move the story forward so the plethora of the other less-developed plot points can be explored. We have a lot of meaty, compelling material to delve into. Angels, Lilith, Lucifer, Ruby, God, seals, Sam’s powers, demons, it’s all there and begging for page time. Why take the effort to open up the mytharc this last season to only pull it back and hide it behind the curtain? It makes me feel like either we’re being toyed with or else Kripke and Co. really don’t know what they’re writing beyond the next episode, and what we’re getting is them stumbling in the dark with a match instead of leading us with a blazing spotlight.
I’m not suggesting Dean’s emotional story or the number of MotW episodes should be culled. In fact, I’m arguing the opposite. I’m saying if more attention was paid to story pacing and efficiency, then a balance between MotW episodes and the mytharc/emotional journeys’ of the characters could be struck. We could move through the story more even keeled instead of thumping back and forth on an either-mytharc-or-an-ill-fitting-MotW seesaw.
Pacing: we’ve just spent two episodes and a couple of months in show time fragmenting ONE of Dean’s issues into post-episode footnotes when it could’ve been dealt with as one MAJOR plot point. What’s fascinating isn’t the conversation itself, which should’ve only taken 4 minutes of show time (not months), it’s the consequences of Dean’s revelation. What are the ramifications? How is Dean going to move forward? Does this affect the way Sam sees his brother? Apparently the angels know what Dean did, but do they know he enjoyed it and does/would that change their mission? The answers to those questions are THE STORY, not the revelation itself. We only have 11 episodes left to touch on a number of interesting and relevant ideas, some of which stem from just this reveal, some of which are Dean’s other issues, and some of which are Sam’s. What’s discussed needs to be cherry picked because there’s not the time to satisfactorily address all of them; I’d like to see the story (the evolution of the characters and their interactions) continually move forward instead of stagnate over catalyzing plot points.
Efficiency: an episode can forward the mytharc/character development and provide an open-and-closed satisfying case file if the MotW spins organically into character and plot reveals. S1, perhaps the season with the most “stand alone episodes”, had gorgeous MotW episodes that ECONOMICALLY SHOWED the evolution of the boys’ relationship, what they needed and wanted, what they were scared of. In “Home” we saw and felt Dean’s desperation as he made a tearful call to John asking for help because there’s something in their house in Lawrence, and we didn’t need to be told about Dean’s big brother complex and his need to protect Sam because we saw his wide-eyed panic and him sprinting across the lawn to frantically chop at the door with an axe to get to Sam. Likewise in “Scarecrow”, we saw Sam’s shift from Dean’s brother to Dean’s brother when he walked away from Meg, California, momentarily abandoning revenge and his search for John for Dean. These revelations were all accomplished through short scenes sprinkled throughout the episode, done efficiently through ACTION that SPUN DIRECTLY from reactions to the MotW situation instead of the writers having to waste time trying to EXPLAIN separately what they want us to see with contrived dialogue and strangely contorted and convoluted relationships between the surface story.
Furthermore, Kripke needs to stop taking major reveals and shoving them into the corners of marginally and poorly related MotW episodes. The reveal about what Dean did in Hell and the fact he liked it was huge, character changing. Why was it chopped up and tacked onto the end of two episodes that were loosely made relevant when it had the potential to be so much more?
For example, this episode marks the first time in four seasons I recall a human child has been killed in an on-scene act of violence. With the Winchester ethos about protecting the innocent and “saving people”, this is a big deal. After it was shown the girl was damaged beyond redemption, I wondered if the Show had the guts to have one of the boys kill her. And while I’m glad Dean or Sam wasn’t the one to end her life, it would’ve been more powerful and a very gutsy statement if Dean had been forced to kill her in order to save the lives of the family (the innocent) and Sam (the object of Dean’s knee-jerk prime directive since day one). This would’ve hit Dean’s fear-death-fight-or-flight primal button and been a powerful trigger unleashing the guilt, shame, self-hatred, and horror he’s been suppressing about what he did in Hell. OK, Dean did kill the brother, but because that was a character who was onscreen for about 3 seconds, that we didn't have any relationship with, it seems like rather a cheap cop out with lesser consequence to me.
ETA: In fact, I think keeping the brother behind the scenes, making him a male and appear older even though the children were to be fraternal twins (thank you to![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif)
blackjedii for her steel-trap memory: apparently the siblings were referred to as twins in the sides and there were originally albino) might've been done on purpose to avoid villifying Dean. The brother's face was never revealed which prevented us from empathizing with him. He was literally a characterless shadow entity that attacked Dean. Dean killing an older male strikes different emotional chords in me than him killing a young girl even though intellectually I understand, in this case, the circumstances/facts for the sister and brother were identical (irredeamable, damaged kids who were a threat to everyone). I maintain the emotional fan response was why Kripke and Co. playing it safe here, why they protected Dean's character by keeping the brother intentionally hidden as much as possible (plot and character development wise) to the point that his reveal was almost out-of-left-field ridiculous. Furthermore, I believe this is why Kripke and Co. also chose to sacrifice Brian's character and have him kill the girl instead of Dean. While the emotional fan part of me is quite happy Dean didn't kill her, from a dramatic story perspective and probably also stemming from my general disgruntlement regarding this season's execution, I think Dean killing her would've been a bold move, one that could've paid for itself a million times over (in a good way) and upped the entire impact of this episode. Good drama isn't afraid of itself, it's not worried about backing itself into a corner, and no character is so sacred that they're beyond tarnishing. Any good story teller knows that a real hero falls to the lowest of lows and finds redemption, and the journey back out is where the power in the story lies, not in pulling punches and building glass cages around the characters. It's all just a matter of execution and restacking the pawns. [end ETA]
Dean killing the main bad guy, the girl, would’ve also established a stronger thematic tie between the surface plot and the Dean’s emotional journey, changing this from just a MotW episode with a mytharc-important scene stuck at the end to a characterization-defining episode with a relevant MotW acting as the catalyst for the change/reveal. I think part of the reason “Mystery Spot” and “In the Beginning” were such powerful episodes was due to the seamless link between the characterization reveals, the building of mytharc, and the surface plot. In both of these episodes, all sub-plots/threads complimented each other and lead us to the same end instead of pulling our attention in opposite directions. In “Family Remains”, the loose relationship between the MotW theme and Dean’s emotional reveal almost competed against each other. And the fact they were similar but not the same highlighted that the writers wanted them to be related but failed to execute the jump properly such that it became awkward and stale feeling.
Additionally, re-centering the MotW theme (Which was what exactly? Monsters are made? Faultless victims can become evil? Defending one’s family justifies murder?) and putting Dean’s journey front and center would’ve actively pushed a number of interesting questions to the forefront, making Show, once again, about more than just pretty faces and blood splatter.
Is it murder if it’s done in self-defense or in defense of the helpless and innocent? What is evil? Is it innate? Is it made? Do you have a choice to carry out evil acts when you have virtually no alternatives? Was the girl, her brother, and Dean in Hell made into something “evil”? Are humans turned demons truly evil and should they be held accountable for what they’ve been fashioned into under years of torture? The latter could’ve been a compelling question regarding Ruby that spring boarded us back into the shades of grey discussion Kripke seems so keen on these past two seasons (it seems to me Ruby and Dean should have a very big conversation coming down the pipe). Perhaps the fact that Ruby simply does remember what its like to be human (as does Dean) after her foray into Hell is literally the key unlocking her motivation(s). But more interestingly, this episode could’ve unearthed question about what it means to be a hunter, who Dean thinks he is, who he is now, and who or what has the power to decide who lives and who dies. It could’ve provided a stark contrast to the “it’s evil we kill it” black-and-white Dean and reinforce how much his character has evolved since S1/early S2. My point here is not to argue if Dean should’ve killed the girl or not, but that the surface plot should be milked for all it’s worth, and even though the it’s not literally about Sam and Dean it should be used to prompt mytharc and character-relevant questions.
But for me what’s most disappointing is the missed opportunity and unused potential. It’s sad when something that’s marginally OK could’ve been pants-on-fire awesome. I’m disappointed that Kripke keeps misbalancing the MotW episodes with character and plot growth. It’s as if someone over the last two seasons has decided there’s a formula to MotW episodes, such that they must be bracketed by five minutes of brother-relationship dialogue. What happened to the non-formulaic SHOWING of the boys’ dynamic and the organic unfolding of the mytharc throughout the episode? I want Sam and Dean’s story front and center where it belongs and given the attention it deserves by entrenching it firmly into a satisfying MotW episode and letting the story tell itself instead of being forced to unfold. Kripke, stop shoving a square peg into a round hole because it doesn’t work and the writers’ smashy hammer marks are making it hard to see the story beyond. Take the boys to dark places, be gutsy, take chances, give us something to talk really talk about. Go full speed ahead with the same break-neck gusto of the first three episodes of S4. You’re better than what you’ve been giving us. Stop trying so hard and just let it flow again.
***
OK, so as not to end on such a sour blah blah wet blanket note I’m including my cracktastic version of what went down in the writers’ room during the brainstorming for “Family Remains”. Whoo! I wrote it caffeinated! No spoilers for unaired episodes in any of the links. There’s an oblique reference to a future episode title, but unless you already know what it is, you won’t catch it. Warning: gross exploitation of Sam's sex scenes and lots of stupid, pointless humor. :P
Also, maybe I missed some vital thing that made this episode rock for some of you. Please share.
ETA: Also, also, if you're looking for a laugh, check outblackjedii's cracktastic version of "The Perfect Supernatural Script" that inadvertantly inspired whatever it is I wrote below. Spoilerphobes beware, there are spoilers in the comments to that post.
***
October, Supernatural Studios, LA: The Writers’ Room
Kripke: *paces in front of the white board* Crap. Our ratings are up. The network is likely going to renew us so they can get their paws on our syndication rights. We need to stretch out the story for another season and need new ideas for episode 4.11.
<---Dawn O! :O
Edlund: A cursed inanimate object that’s exploited by dark side of the human psyche and becomes a harbinger of destruction and chaos.
Gamble: Sex. Maybe biting?
Carver: I write what Eric tells me. *is secretly afraid he’s being set up to fail*
New Guys: *celebrate the fact they won’t have to work at Jack in the Box for another two years*
Humphris: How about an episode that underlines the nature of the Winchester family dysfunction. We use dream sequences to reflect on Sam and John’s relationship or use a monster of the week to make a statement about Dean’s capacity for darkness and his mysterious destiny—
Kripke: I’m thinking something gory. Like with blood. And gore.
Humphris: *facepalm*
Gamble: Someone faceplants in a deep fryer after they’ve had sex with Sam?
Edlund: The deep fryer could be cursed…
New Guys: We have real-life experience with deep fryers! *eager faces*
Kripke: *imagines bubbling and peeling flesh and giggles like a fangirl*
Manners (via teleconference thingy from Burnaby): Just give me something where I can use extreme close-ups. And Phil wants more montages and scenes where Jensen pretends to sing to use for the gag reel.
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): Jared has dry skin and is afraid of hot wax. According to his contract, he can’t get within 7.5 inches of candles, oiled waffle irons, or deep fryers.
Gamble: But what if a towel was involved?
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): Jared now refuses to take off his shirt for fear of being douche baggy. It’s in his contract.
Kripke: You know who is a douche bag? Criss Angel.
Everyone: ???
Kripke: Insults disguised as random pop culture references and inside jokes are awesome. *claps hands* OK, back on track … episode 4.11. Scary. What’s scary? Like piss-your-pants-eat-your-fist, big-reaction scary?
Edlund: A cursed inanimate object that’s exploited by dark side of the human psyche and becomes a harbinger of destruction and chaos.
Gamble: Werewolves. Also, Ruby.
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): We can’t make Jared douche-baggy. We’ll have to trick him into taking his shirt off voluntarily.
Carver: I think whatever Eric thinks is scary. *is secretly afraid of being set up to fail*
New Guys: Unemployment.
Humphris: We could use fear as a reflection on the boys’ psyches and their current emotional headspace. Being that they fight fear, which manifests itself literally as ghosts, even Hell, it would be an interesting to literally explore what they’re fearful of, not through the filter of the supernatural, but through their everyday—
Kripke: Come on guys, we’re writers. We’re supposed to have new ideas and write awesome stories and stuff. *makes Eric-like hand motions* I know. What’ve we written that’s really, really scary?
Humphris: *headdesk*
Edlund: People. People are scary, especially ones with inanimate objects.
Gamble: Sam’s muscles.
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): No douche ba—
Gamble: Fine. Little girls in douche-baggy dresses, alright?
Carver: When Eric made me write incest, that was scary. I thought I was being set up to fail.
Humphris: *mumbles*
New Guys: *look at Humphris* What? Balls?
Kripke: Hmm, balls … interesting. *steeples fingers*
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): Didn’t we do a ball scene with Bobby in that episode, “Hey, God, I’m Dean”?
Gamble: It was “Are You There God, It’s me, Dean Winchester”! And Judy Blume was my favorite teen author. She wrote about periods.
Humphris: No, not balls. DOLLS! Dolls are freaky. Dolls with dead, staring eyes and cut-off hair! But nobody will listen to me anyway… *rages*
New Guys: *back away slowly on rolly chairs* OK, dolls. Yeah. Not scarier thananyone anything else.
Kripke: Hmm, dolls … interesting. *rubs chin*
Manners (via teleconference thingy from Burnaby): Let’s do an episode where the boys crawl into a small space. Small spaces are good for extreme close-ups. Also, I can get the crew to dump water on them and laugh again.
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): Jared has nothing in his contract prohibiting waterboarding or Chinese water torture as long as it doesn’t involve douching.
Manners: And lets shoot it at that place where we shot “Faith” so Phil can do a montage to a Blue Oyster Cult song featuring the cow bell.
Kripke: *jumps up* OK, I got it! Episode 4.11! Think savage Missy Bender with incest and rolling balls and hairless dolls in the small space between walls shot at the place where we did the Blue Oyster Cult montage! *jazz hands* Is that kick ass or what? An extra Christmas bonus for anyone who can figure out a way to stick in the licked-hand urban legend and reference Scooby Doo and Casper the Ghost again.
Everyone: Eric, you are the God of Awesomeness! Let us worship at the shrine! \o/ *spins on their rolly chairs*
Kripke: Carver, you’re writing.
Carver: *Feels sheer terror. Glee. Suspicion. Silently wonders if he’s being set up to fail*
Gamble: Can it be Sam’s hand that’s licked?
*fade to black* ;)
Fair enough. But I thought it would’ve been creepier if the siblings had been identical twins. Not only would a single pregnancy have been the easiest way to explain the back story instead of multiple incestuous babies (that brother looked and sounded years older than the sister), it would’ve explained why the “ghost” appeared to move so quickly from inside to outside the house. Plus, showing the “ghost” in multiple places inside the house almost instantaneously would’ve been a more effective way to foreshadow the plot twist. It certainly would’ve been felt more earned having two girls crawling out of the woodwork instead of a never-seen-before brother launching out of the shadows.
But my main gripe isn’t with the nit-picky details of the surface plot or what Sam and/or Dean did or didn’t say. My issues are rooted in things that stretch beyond the merits and failings of single MotW episode broken by a team, written by one staff writer and their assistants, and overseen by Kripke. “Family Remains” is symptomatic of things I’ve been scratching my head about for a while, things like the overall story pacing and story telling efficiency, in what—over the last two seasons—seems to have become the formulaic “MotW” episode, and the writers smashing together of “MotW” episodes with loosely related characterization and mytharc reveals with their hammers. And these things combined have me wondering about execution of the rest of the season and what we’ll be left with after 4x22 fades to black.
I think “Family Remains” could’ve been great stand-alone episode. And by stand alone, I literally mean stand-alone: void of any mytharc, free of consequential emotional revelations, and without any attempts to hammer in a misplaced and awkward final scene … an awesome stand-alone on par with “Nightshifter”. But the final few minutes unbalanced this episode for me. The repetition of Dean pouring his heart out to Sam next to the Impala had the same effect as those ponderous early S3 Sam-and-Dean-fight-while-driving-in-the-I
While I don’t have a problem with Dean sharing and caring and furthering his emotional journey, I’m equally annoyed that such an important scene was so sloppily tacked on like an afterthought. It would’ve been more resonant at the end of “Heaven and Hell”, or the final scene of “Heaven and Hell” should’ve been reserved for this episode. Either way, the two scenes should’ve been joined because they’re the same conversation: Dean revealing to Sam what happened in Hell and his admission of guilt and shame at what he did under the duress of torture.
Dragging out the conversation over multiple episodes diluted it, reduced its impact. Kripke needs to stop holding back and teasing. He needs to hit the plot points square on and move the story forward so the plethora of the other less-developed plot points can be explored. We have a lot of meaty, compelling material to delve into. Angels, Lilith, Lucifer, Ruby, God, seals, Sam’s powers, demons, it’s all there and begging for page time. Why take the effort to open up the mytharc this last season to only pull it back and hide it behind the curtain? It makes me feel like either we’re being toyed with or else Kripke and Co. really don’t know what they’re writing beyond the next episode, and what we’re getting is them stumbling in the dark with a match instead of leading us with a blazing spotlight.
I’m not suggesting Dean’s emotional story or the number of MotW episodes should be culled. In fact, I’m arguing the opposite. I’m saying if more attention was paid to story pacing and efficiency, then a balance between MotW episodes and the mytharc/emotional journeys’ of the characters could be struck. We could move through the story more even keeled instead of thumping back and forth on an either-mytharc-or-an-ill-fitting-MotW seesaw.
Pacing: we’ve just spent two episodes and a couple of months in show time fragmenting ONE of Dean’s issues into post-episode footnotes when it could’ve been dealt with as one MAJOR plot point. What’s fascinating isn’t the conversation itself, which should’ve only taken 4 minutes of show time (not months), it’s the consequences of Dean’s revelation. What are the ramifications? How is Dean going to move forward? Does this affect the way Sam sees his brother? Apparently the angels know what Dean did, but do they know he enjoyed it and does/would that change their mission? The answers to those questions are THE STORY, not the revelation itself. We only have 11 episodes left to touch on a number of interesting and relevant ideas, some of which stem from just this reveal, some of which are Dean’s other issues, and some of which are Sam’s. What’s discussed needs to be cherry picked because there’s not the time to satisfactorily address all of them; I’d like to see the story (the evolution of the characters and their interactions) continually move forward instead of stagnate over catalyzing plot points.
Efficiency: an episode can forward the mytharc/character development and provide an open-and-closed satisfying case file if the MotW spins organically into character and plot reveals. S1, perhaps the season with the most “stand alone episodes”, had gorgeous MotW episodes that ECONOMICALLY SHOWED the evolution of the boys’ relationship, what they needed and wanted, what they were scared of. In “Home” we saw and felt Dean’s desperation as he made a tearful call to John asking for help because there’s something in their house in Lawrence, and we didn’t need to be told about Dean’s big brother complex and his need to protect Sam because we saw his wide-eyed panic and him sprinting across the lawn to frantically chop at the door with an axe to get to Sam. Likewise in “Scarecrow”, we saw Sam’s shift from Dean’s brother to Dean’s brother when he walked away from Meg, California, momentarily abandoning revenge and his search for John for Dean. These revelations were all accomplished through short scenes sprinkled throughout the episode, done efficiently through ACTION that SPUN DIRECTLY from reactions to the MotW situation instead of the writers having to waste time trying to EXPLAIN separately what they want us to see with contrived dialogue and strangely contorted and convoluted relationships between the surface story.
Furthermore, Kripke needs to stop taking major reveals and shoving them into the corners of marginally and poorly related MotW episodes. The reveal about what Dean did in Hell and the fact he liked it was huge, character changing. Why was it chopped up and tacked onto the end of two episodes that were loosely made relevant when it had the potential to be so much more?
For example, this episode marks the first time in four seasons I recall a human child has been killed in an on-scene act of violence. With the Winchester ethos about protecting the innocent and “saving people”, this is a big deal. After it was shown the girl was damaged beyond redemption, I wondered if the Show had the guts to have one of the boys kill her. And while I’m glad Dean or Sam wasn’t the one to end her life, it would’ve been more powerful and a very gutsy statement if Dean had been forced to kill her in order to save the lives of the family (the innocent) and Sam (the object of Dean’s knee-jerk prime directive since day one). This would’ve hit Dean’s fear-death-fight-or-flight primal button and been a powerful trigger unleashing the guilt, shame, self-hatred, and horror he’s been suppressing about what he did in Hell. OK, Dean did kill the brother, but because that was a character who was onscreen for about 3 seconds, that we didn't have any relationship with, it seems like rather a cheap cop out with lesser consequence to me.
ETA: In fact, I think keeping the brother behind the scenes, making him a male and appear older even though the children were to be fraternal twins (thank you to
blackjedii for her steel-trap memory: apparently the siblings were referred to as twins in the sides and there were originally albino) might've been done on purpose to avoid villifying Dean. The brother's face was never revealed which prevented us from empathizing with him. He was literally a characterless shadow entity that attacked Dean. Dean killing an older male strikes different emotional chords in me than him killing a young girl even though intellectually I understand, in this case, the circumstances/facts for the sister and brother were identical (irredeamable, damaged kids who were a threat to everyone). I maintain the emotional fan response was why Kripke and Co. playing it safe here, why they protected Dean's character by keeping the brother intentionally hidden as much as possible (plot and character development wise) to the point that his reveal was almost out-of-left-field ridiculous. Furthermore, I believe this is why Kripke and Co. also chose to sacrifice Brian's character and have him kill the girl instead of Dean. While the emotional fan part of me is quite happy Dean didn't kill her, from a dramatic story perspective and probably also stemming from my general disgruntlement regarding this season's execution, I think Dean killing her would've been a bold move, one that could've paid for itself a million times over (in a good way) and upped the entire impact of this episode. Good drama isn't afraid of itself, it's not worried about backing itself into a corner, and no character is so sacred that they're beyond tarnishing. Any good story teller knows that a real hero falls to the lowest of lows and finds redemption, and the journey back out is where the power in the story lies, not in pulling punches and building glass cages around the characters. It's all just a matter of execution and restacking the pawns. [end ETA] Dean killing the main bad guy, the girl, would’ve also established a stronger thematic tie between the surface plot and the Dean’s emotional journey, changing this from just a MotW episode with a mytharc-important scene stuck at the end to a characterization-defining episode with a relevant MotW acting as the catalyst for the change/reveal. I think part of the reason “Mystery Spot” and “In the Beginning” were such powerful episodes was due to the seamless link between the characterization reveals, the building of mytharc, and the surface plot. In both of these episodes, all sub-plots/threads complimented each other and lead us to the same end instead of pulling our attention in opposite directions. In “Family Remains”, the loose relationship between the MotW theme and Dean’s emotional reveal almost competed against each other. And the fact they were similar but not the same highlighted that the writers wanted them to be related but failed to execute the jump properly such that it became awkward and stale feeling.
Additionally, re-centering the MotW theme (Which was what exactly? Monsters are made? Faultless victims can become evil? Defending one’s family justifies murder?) and putting Dean’s journey front and center would’ve actively pushed a number of interesting questions to the forefront, making Show, once again, about more than just pretty faces and blood splatter.
Is it murder if it’s done in self-defense or in defense of the helpless and innocent? What is evil? Is it innate? Is it made? Do you have a choice to carry out evil acts when you have virtually no alternatives? Was the girl, her brother, and Dean in Hell made into something “evil”? Are humans turned demons truly evil and should they be held accountable for what they’ve been fashioned into under years of torture? The latter could’ve been a compelling question regarding Ruby that spring boarded us back into the shades of grey discussion Kripke seems so keen on these past two seasons (it seems to me Ruby and Dean should have a very big conversation coming down the pipe). Perhaps the fact that Ruby simply does remember what its like to be human (as does Dean) after her foray into Hell is literally the key unlocking her motivation(s). But more interestingly, this episode could’ve unearthed question about what it means to be a hunter, who Dean thinks he is, who he is now, and who or what has the power to decide who lives and who dies. It could’ve provided a stark contrast to the “it’s evil we kill it” black-and-white Dean and reinforce how much his character has evolved since S1/early S2. My point here is not to argue if Dean should’ve killed the girl or not, but that the surface plot should be milked for all it’s worth, and even though the it’s not literally about Sam and Dean it should be used to prompt mytharc and character-relevant questions.
But for me what’s most disappointing is the missed opportunity and unused potential. It’s sad when something that’s marginally OK could’ve been pants-on-fire awesome. I’m disappointed that Kripke keeps misbalancing the MotW episodes with character and plot growth. It’s as if someone over the last two seasons has decided there’s a formula to MotW episodes, such that they must be bracketed by five minutes of brother-relationship dialogue. What happened to the non-formulaic SHOWING of the boys’ dynamic and the organic unfolding of the mytharc throughout the episode? I want Sam and Dean’s story front and center where it belongs and given the attention it deserves by entrenching it firmly into a satisfying MotW episode and letting the story tell itself instead of being forced to unfold. Kripke, stop shoving a square peg into a round hole because it doesn’t work and the writers’ smashy hammer marks are making it hard to see the story beyond. Take the boys to dark places, be gutsy, take chances, give us something to talk really talk about. Go full speed ahead with the same break-neck gusto of the first three episodes of S4. You’re better than what you’ve been giving us. Stop trying so hard and just let it flow again.
***
OK, so as not to end on such a sour blah blah wet blanket note I’m including my cracktastic version of what went down in the writers’ room during the brainstorming for “Family Remains”. Whoo! I wrote it caffeinated! No spoilers for unaired episodes in any of the links. There’s an oblique reference to a future episode title, but unless you already know what it is, you won’t catch it. Warning: gross exploitation of Sam's sex scenes and lots of stupid, pointless humor. :P
Also, maybe I missed some vital thing that made this episode rock for some of you. Please share.
ETA: Also, also, if you're looking for a laugh, check out
blackjedii's cracktastic version of "The Perfect Supernatural Script" that inadvertantly inspired whatever it is I wrote below. Spoilerphobes beware, there are spoilers in the comments to that post. ***
October, Supernatural Studios, LA: The Writers’ Room
Kripke: *paces in front of the white board* Crap. Our ratings are up. The network is likely going to renew us so they can get their paws on our syndication rights. We need to stretch out the story for another season and need new ideas for episode 4.11.
<---Dawn O! :OEdlund: A cursed inanimate object that’s exploited by dark side of the human psyche and becomes a harbinger of destruction and chaos.
Gamble: Sex. Maybe biting?
Carver: I write what Eric tells me. *is secretly afraid he’s being set up to fail*
New Guys: *celebrate the fact they won’t have to work at Jack in the Box for another two years*
Humphris: How about an episode that underlines the nature of the Winchester family dysfunction. We use dream sequences to reflect on Sam and John’s relationship or use a monster of the week to make a statement about Dean’s capacity for darkness and his mysterious destiny—
Kripke: I’m thinking something gory. Like with blood. And gore.
Humphris: *facepalm*
Gamble: Someone faceplants in a deep fryer after they’ve had sex with Sam?
Edlund: The deep fryer could be cursed…
New Guys: We have real-life experience with deep fryers! *eager faces*
Kripke: *imagines bubbling and peeling flesh and giggles like a fangirl*
Manners (via teleconference thingy from Burnaby): Just give me something where I can use extreme close-ups. And Phil wants more montages and scenes where Jensen pretends to sing to use for the gag reel.
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): Jared has dry skin and is afraid of hot wax. According to his contract, he can’t get within 7.5 inches of candles, oiled waffle irons, or deep fryers.
Gamble: But what if a towel was involved?
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): Jared now refuses to take off his shirt for fear of being douche baggy. It’s in his contract.
Kripke: You know who is a douche bag? Criss Angel.
Everyone: ???
Kripke: Insults disguised as random pop culture references and inside jokes are awesome. *claps hands* OK, back on track … episode 4.11. Scary. What’s scary? Like piss-your-pants-eat-your-fist, big-reaction scary?
Edlund: A cursed inanimate object that’s exploited by dark side of the human psyche and becomes a harbinger of destruction and chaos.
Gamble: Werewolves. Also, Ruby.
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): We can’t make Jared douche-baggy. We’ll have to trick him into taking his shirt off voluntarily.
Carver: I think whatever Eric thinks is scary. *is secretly afraid of being set up to fail*
New Guys: Unemployment.
Humphris: We could use fear as a reflection on the boys’ psyches and their current emotional headspace. Being that they fight fear, which manifests itself literally as ghosts, even Hell, it would be an interesting to literally explore what they’re fearful of, not through the filter of the supernatural, but through their everyday—
Kripke: Come on guys, we’re writers. We’re supposed to have new ideas and write awesome stories and stuff. *makes Eric-like hand motions* I know. What’ve we written that’s really, really scary?
Humphris: *headdesk*
Edlund: People. People are scary, especially ones with inanimate objects.
Gamble: Sam’s muscles.
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): No douche ba—
Gamble: Fine. Little girls in douche-baggy dresses, alright?
Carver: When Eric made me write incest, that was scary. I thought I was being set up to fail.
Humphris: *mumbles*
New Guys: *look at Humphris* What? Balls?
Kripke: Hmm, balls … interesting. *steeples fingers*
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): Didn’t we do a ball scene with Bobby in that episode, “Hey, God, I’m Dean”?
Gamble: It was “Are You There God, It’s me, Dean Winchester”! And Judy Blume was my favorite teen author. She wrote about periods.
Humphris: No, not balls. DOLLS! Dolls are freaky. Dolls with dead, staring eyes and cut-off hair! But nobody will listen to me anyway… *rages*
New Guys: *back away slowly on rolly chairs* OK, dolls. Yeah. Not scarier than
Kripke: Hmm, dolls … interesting. *rubs chin*
Manners (via teleconference thingy from Burnaby): Let’s do an episode where the boys crawl into a small space. Small spaces are good for extreme close-ups. Also, I can get the crew to dump water on them and laugh again.
Singer (via teleconference thingy from across the lot): Jared has nothing in his contract prohibiting waterboarding or Chinese water torture as long as it doesn’t involve douching.
Manners: And lets shoot it at that place where we shot “Faith” so Phil can do a montage to a Blue Oyster Cult song featuring the cow bell.
Kripke: *jumps up* OK, I got it! Episode 4.11! Think savage Missy Bender with incest and rolling balls and hairless dolls in the small space between walls shot at the place where we did the Blue Oyster Cult montage! *jazz hands* Is that kick ass or what? An extra Christmas bonus for anyone who can figure out a way to stick in the licked-hand urban legend and reference Scooby Doo and Casper the Ghost again.
Everyone: Eric, you are the God of Awesomeness! Let us worship at the shrine! \o/ *spins on their rolly chairs*
Kripke: Carver, you’re writing.
Carver: *Feels sheer terror. Glee. Suspicion. Silently wonders if he’s being set up to fail*
Gamble: Can it be Sam’s hand that’s licked?
*fade to black* ;)
silly
And your writer's room conversation rocks!
Thanks. It sounds like I only know how to criticize, but there are lots of things I enjoy about the Show ... expounding on them wasn't the point of this post, though. I always feel a little sheepish after writing show reactions that have anything less than stellar things to say and have to fight the urge to DELETE them, so I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed some of the same things I did. :)
your writer's room conversation rocks!
Crack + meta = crack!meta? ;)
So many good points. i was rendered inarticulate - in a bad way - by 4x11. You have stated so succinctly the many ways it was below par!
hahahahahahahahhahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! *luvs your cracktasticness*
Sera Gamble's fixations! Edlund's fixations! Kripke's fixations! carver's feasr! Humphries constant fade-to-wallpaper!!!!!!
You win!
Talk about inarticulate, I think I was the one who wrote only "DITTO" to your episode reaction post. XD
Humphries constant fade-to-wallpaper!!!!!!
LOL! I love that description! I doubt she's really like this or that anyone ignores anyone like that, but I did read an interview with Gamble who said she kept trying to inject high-brow themes and intellectual blah blah blah blah and Kripke would have to tell her to stop because SPN wasn't that kind of show. Heh! So funny.
I only poke fun because Show and its writers crack me up, not to be mean spirited.
ps. Minus the very-amazing-cracktastic-tude. That might not translate so well *snort*
Wouldn't that take all? Heh. Somehow I imagine he's got better things to do than read episode reviews ... like maybe run a TV show. ;)
That might not translate so well *snort*
*snort* And then I'd have to start flocking all my entries.
For me, this ep was good. Hands down the creepiest ep in the history of Supernatural, but... good. I think the scene at the end worked much better here than it did in H&H (4x10), for some reason.
Maybe it's the hiatus, maybe because I've gotten used to the Show being like this, who knows? But for me, Dean's characterization here, in this, rang truer than at the end of last ep.
Yes, this was a MotW-ep, sprinkled with hints at mytharc. Just like Playthings (2x11). Maybe they could've made it better; not for me to know. I was way too busy hiding behind my hands to cry foul. Maybe once I watch it during daytime/with someone...
Doesn't the Tanner-kid from Croatoan (2x09) count as human, btw? Or the Tanner dad and mom, Beverly? Far as the boys were concerned, all three of those were human when they (Dean) decided to pull the trigger...
Your version of what happened down at the Writers' Room sounds delightful. *GLEE* It's so easy to think that yes, this is how the creative process went. \o/
Agreeing with you 100% over the fact that Kripke & co. should decide whether they want to make a MotW or a MythArc-ep. *wantsess some Sammy-centricity, badly*
I think the scene at the end worked much better here than it did in H&H (4x10)
I'm still not sure what to say about 4x10, so I think it's better if I don't say anything at all. For me, it's not a matter of which end scene fit better or which one I preferred, but a matter of being tired of watching Dean torture himself and slowly barfing up his confessions in what I think is a disproportionate amount of Show time considering all of the other stories lines that are clamoring for attention. I'm not suggesting that we don't spend time on Dean or that his reveals shouldn't be heart wrenching or take time for him to divulge/process, but the revelation could've been all taken care of in one swoop instead of two (H&H and FR) and then we'd have an extra episode to explore the implications of his reveals OR something else ... both of which, I think, would be more interesting and important to the story.
Dean's characterization here, in this, rang truer than at the end of last ep.
I think Dean's reactions have been true to what we know of him. It makes sense to me that he'd be repressing up to a point it becomes unbearable and all it would take to reopen everything would be a trigger. Now that he's vocalizing what happened, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Dean struggling more, trying to process everything.
Doesn't the Tanner-kid from Croatoan (2x09) count as human, btw?
Yes, for sure they count! :) I think I wrote something along the lines of this being the first human child killed violently and on-screen. I just remember a conversation a while back about the fact that children (before this episode) were kept safe and never killed despite all the gore and violence ... like Kripke and Co. had an unwritten rule of sorts.
*GLEE* It's so easy to think that yes, this is how the creative process went. \o/
Hopefully the real process involves coffee. Also, I hear the Kripke likes to get up and act out proposed scenes. Wouldn't that be entertaining to see him emoting Dean?
*wantsess some Sammy-centricity, badly*
I'm with you! 4x09 was exactly what I was itching for. I wouldn't mind getting more into Sam's head this season. I've been waiting patiently since S3.
I don't think so. I thought that path was nicely laid as well, since when I saw that painting I assumed it was the Girl and the son she wanted to kidnap.
that brother looked and sounded years older than the sister), it would’ve explained why the “ghost” appeared to move so quickly from inside to outside the house
Very good point! I also thought they seemed different in age but I had assumed that there was more than one pregnancy, although I guess there was no reason to think so.
Why was it chopped up and tacked onto the end of two episodes that were loosely made relevant when it had the potential to be so much more?
I have an unpleasant answer for that which also harkens back to other brother bonding moments in those last few minutes of show, such as in Fresh Blood and Wishful Thinking. They don't care if viewers tune out by that time and don't watch it, because it's too late to be measured as a ratings drop-off, and at the same time the fans who most want to see those scenes will always watch until the last moment. Also, of course, they make for good cliffhangers whereas an unsolved case will not.
Dean did kill the brother, but because that was a character who was onscreen for about 3 seconds, that we didn't have any relationship with, it seems like rather a cheap cop out with lesser consequence to me.
I suspect that's exactly why they didn't use the twin girls idea.
New Guys: We have real-life experience with deep fryers! *eager faces*
Hee! I loved the writers room discussion and how they came up with the plot! I can't see that group photo you posted very well, what is it?
I'm glad I wasn't the only one giving the TV a BHUZ face. According to the sides, the kids were originally fraternal albino twins. The albino part obviously didn't translate to the shoot so I don't know if we should assume the twin part did either or not. I suppose it's not important either way for the MotW story and there's no way to prove or disprove either scenario so I guess we just chalk it up to a detail only fandom would obsess over.
However, I did add a paragraph to this entry about why they cast an older male who was faceless and kept hidden for majority of the episode. And why he was shot by Dean and not the MotW with a face, the girl.
they make for good cliffhangers whereas an unsolved case will not.
Yes, true. But it would be refreshing to have the brotherly moment be of a different nature once in a while. Dean making some statement about Hell while Sam looks on helpless and silent is growing tiresome.
Hee! I loved the writers room discussion and how they came up with the plot!
Heh! Thanks. I'll attribute it to caffeine and a spare hour on the computer procrastinating.
I can't see that group photo you posted very well, what is it?
That's a photo of JP on the F13 set flexing his brains out. You can see a bigger version with source credits here: http://bowtrunckle.livejournal.com/5158
I pretty much agree with you about the 4x10 end convo being re-hashed here. But I feel the need to mention that this ep happened a month after 4x10 so a lot has happened to the boys since that one and having this conversation again probably doesn't feel as repetitive to them as it does to us, and Dean owed Sam an explanation for the nonstop hunting. Obviously Dean realizing that saving people and hunting things isn't helping him to get rid of his guilt is important if it is mentioned in the ep, but because we get no information of where it is leading, it feels more a repetition of the old than a teaser of the things yet to come. And this is actually pretty much what you said about the pacing, so I have to agree with you about that also.
However, I don't feel like Dean enjoying what he did in Hell was really character-changing because it doesn't change anything about his choices. Dean would've angsted over torturing people whether he had liked it or not, he would've gone on a hunting spree to relieve his guilt whether he liked it or not. It's not like it turned him permanently evil; what happens in
VegasHell, stays inVegasHell.Monsters are made? Faultless victims can become evil? Defending one’s family justifies murder?
Animals can't be evil? Dean had no other choice here but to kill her like he had no options in Hell but to start torturing others? The world isn't black and white, and hard choices and sacrifices have to be made like Castiel told Dean (and Ruby told Sam) because of the bigger picture? Maybe this ties with the end of 4x07 where Dean was tested (and Castiel expressed his doubts)? *silences brain* You raise a very good point, my friend, the potential of the ep wasn't used to its fullest and the whole point of the ep remains vague and that causes sad-facing *makes up words*.
And because I want to like the Show-returns-from-hiatus episode, I'm going to say that this was by far the scariest episode so far and that it fits the 'horror movie every week' formula spot on. The MotW ep formula also isn't very deeply established yet - you're confusing it partly with the 'Dean angsts and sheds a single tear of doom' formula. ;D Plus, this ep completes the first half of the season and we've already come pretty far: we know how Dean got out from Hell, what Sam did during Dean's visit Down Under, how Dean is feeling now, what Lilith is up to etc. and we're left in a good position for the latter half of S4.
And now I can't help but to think that Dean would probably want to angel up pretty bad at this point. And that maybe this is supposed to foreshadow angel!Dean. And now I'm almost thinking that Castiel=God. I don't even know anymore, man! I'm just happy to be a spoilerphobe.
*reads crack*
*dies*
LOL!!!!!
Dude, the bf is sleeping in the next room and you have no idea how difficult it is not to burst into loud giggle fits while reading that! You win the Internet. \o/
I KNOW THE OBLIQUE REFERENCE BECAUSE I'VE SEEN THE CON VIDEOS AND DAMN I HAD ALMOST FORGOTTEN ABOUT THE FUNNINESS OF THAT ONE.
But I feel the need to mention that this ep happened a month after 4x10 so a lot has happened to the boys since that one and having this conversation again probably doesn't feel as repetitive to them as it does to us
If looked at from the characters' perspective as if they were real people processing/living those lives I agree with you. But from an audience of a TV show point of view, I still think this was dragged out too long. If we had 40 episodes a season then the story could afford to take its time, but we don't. And I guess I'm impatient and getting frustrated.
I don't feel like Dean enjoying what he did in Hell was really character-changing because it doesn't change anything about his choices.
It doesn't change his actions, but it changes how he views himself. It's this internal shift, the fact that I think he now questions the most fundamental part of himself, the part he's always fallen back on (I save people, I do the right thing etc.) no matter what other self-esteem issues he's had that's got him so out of sorts (not to mention just dealing the PTSD). That's what I meant by character changing. Also, if Dean is doubting himself you'd think that will eventually manifest itself as action or inaction at some point as he works through it. But then again, Show hasn't been too great about emotional continuity and consequences/follow through in the last couple of years. :(
causes sad-facing *makes up words*
I've been sad-facing a lot lately with the Show and I'm getting tired of it. *sad faces even more*
The MotW ep formula also isn't very deeply established yet - you're confusing it partly with the 'Dean angsts and sheds a single tear of doom' formula. ;D
I don't know. I guess it depends what episodes you lump into MotW or Mytharc. Dean's emoting isn't exclusive to this "formula", I'm including Sam, too. Out of what I consider to be the five MotW episodes so far this season there have been a higher proportion with the "boys share a moment" bookends than any other season (4x04, 4x08, 4x11). I think there was much more variety in the MotW episodes even in S3 where there were only 3/9 MotW episodes (3x06, 3x10, 3x14) that were book ended like this.
And now I can't help but to think that Dean would probably want to angel up pretty bad at this point.
You would think forgiveness and salvation and hugs from angels might make him feel a little better. :) Perhaps Anna's forgiveness was the trigger that Dean needed to start facing what he did in Hell.
A part of me wonders if part of the reason Castiel was commanded to save Dean after he'd been in Hell for "40 years" (why not save Dean earlier?) was because the higher power needed Dean to be saved not only to "stop Sam" and what Sam was doing with Ruby but also to save the world from the demon Dean was becoming.
I KNOW THE OBLIQUE REFERENCE BECAUSE I'VE SEEN THE CON VIDEOS AND DAMN I HAD ALMOST FORGOTTEN ABOUT THE FUNNINESS OF THAT ONE.
I'm curious to see if that actually does become the title! XD I will laugh. So. Hard. And then want to know the story behind it. At least the Show has a sense of humor about itself! :D
*smishes you just because*
LOVED your writer's room bit!
LOVED your writer's room bit!
I'm glad! I needed some crack-silliness after thinking much too hard about all the things that have been niggling at me about this season that somehow manifested as GRRRR 4x11.
Although you missed the part where Carver makes comments about pregnant women for some weird reason. But Gamble was spot-on. ;)
As for the episode, bleh, I'm half-afraid of what I'd write but I might start getting meta-y and grouchy tomorrow.
The one thing I have to add though is that the girl and the boy are in fact twins, there was at least one referencee of "OUT OF NOWHERE THE TWIN!!" in the sides. And they were supposedly going to be albino too.
*dies laughing* Oh, how could I have forgotten that!??! Apparently, he got his pregnant woman fix in 4x11 by creating in incestuous pregnancy with two children turned savage by their abusive father/grandfather. For a moment, I thought the fotw's (family of the week) last name was "Carver" instead of "Carter" and thought he was a LITTLE CRAZY to lend his surname to the victim family. Thankfully that wasn't the case, otherwise I'd have to wonder about him, esp. with the whole pregnancy fixation thing. O_o
I might start getting meta-y and grouchy tomorrow.
I certainly didn't set out to write what I ended up writing. But I know what you're saying. I've stopped writing meta and haven't been doing episode reactions of any substance for a long time because I don't want to be a wet blanket. Obviously, this time around I lost my filter and posted this before I pressed delete.
there was at least one referencee of "OUT OF NOWHERE THE TWIN!!" in the sides. And they were supposedly going to be albino too.
Thanks so much for this. Obviously the albino thing didn't translate, so I have to wonder if the twin thing didn't translate either. *ponders* Just because Sam only found a journal with mentions of one pregnancy doesn't mean there weren't more (journals and/or pregnancies). Gah. Whatever.
Edited at 2009-01-19 07:22 pm (UTC)
Still, it would have been much more awesome.
I though the ending was a bit tacked on, yeah, since it's basically the exact conversation they had last ep. If they'd let it all be revealed in this episode it would have had a much stronger impact. It did tie in to what hell does to a person nicely though, how you can turn into a rabid animal under the right circumstances.
I think I'm gonna have to make me a "time for The Talk again" icon.
Yes. I also think it was done intentionally for the exact same reasons. I just tend to think drama is made by breaking your characters and then redeeming them. There's nothing more satisfying than seeing fictional characters being put through the ringer and then come out the other side stronger, better, and with more insight. The payoff/growth is proportional to how low they went. And I like it when stories aren't afraid to go there--you can't redeem a character who never did anything wrong.
Part of me is glad Dean didn't kill the girl, but part of me is disappointed that Show didn't have the guts to do the almost unthinkable. At least it would've been a surprise and earned some respect/admiration for having the guts to really dig deep into Dean's character and take him to a place I thought was untouchable. But this is SPN, not BSG.
I added a paragraph to this post about this last night in case you're interested. :)
It did tie in to what hell does to a person nicely though, how you can turn into a rabid animal under the right circumstances.
Yes, it did. Stockholm syndrome and all. Poor Dean. Perhaps I spent too much time trying to voice my frustrations about this episode and never got around to the parts that were actually not too bad...
I'm gonna have to make me a "time for The Talk again" icon.
Heh. Great idea. If it's shareable I might just have to snag it!
I thought it seemed weird period that Dean liked the torture, not only that it was tacked on to the end of the episode. But it does show the way he was twisted in hell and adds to the dynamic between Sam and Dean in that they have to find a way to see the good in each other no matter what and remind each other that it's still there. Call it Hell-Stockholm Syndrome. I mean, it was years, not months.
It was a creepy episode. Watching it with people who are moderate fans of the show gave me the perspective that people in general liked the episode but die-hard fans may find the last minute revelations hard to swallow. It's a good thing to, for ratings.
You're right, the twin thing would've been brilliant but might have seemed slightly ... not cliche but sort of been-there-done-that in a way. If they'd done a boy and girl twin dressed similarly it would have been okay too. If they hadn't already did the twin thing with Bobby's scenes earlier that wouldn't worked great. And yeah, the boy did seem much older.
It was kind of weird at the end too that family seemed a bit too happy. I mean, the uncle died. Should have been a bit more freaked out perhaps.
Oh man, we watched a few old episodes of the show and I'm surprised by all that I've missed. I was going 'oh wow, I missed that last time!' frequently. I understand a bit better now, some of the things that were a bit hazy before. Yay season discs!
I will never be able to think of those dolls again without silently freaking out. D: Have you ever seen any of the "Child's Play" movies with Chucky the murderous doll? Oh, man, I had nightmares for YEARS! Chucky did for me what Jaws did for me for swimming.
Call it Hell-Stockholm Syndrome. I mean, it was years, not months.
*nods* I'm OK with Dean having "enjoyed torturing other people". What I mean to say is: I'm OK with the choice the writers made to have him done that and enjoyed it. I like the idea of him questioning the ONE thing he's been sure of all these years: his belief that he's "THE GOOD GUY". I'm all for shaking up the foundation a little and seeing what happens.
the twin thing would've been brilliant but might have seemed slightly ... not cliche but sort of been-there-done-that in a way.
Yeah, I can see that. I thought the same thing, too, and have no real answer to that other than I think identical twins in this episode would've been a better place to use them than in 4x02. But at the time they wrote 4x02 they weren't thinking about 4x11, so you can't fault the writers for not being psychic. ;) I guess you just do the best with what you know at the time. See? I'm all forgiving when it comes to scripting a show and rolling with the punches regarding things that can't be helped, but when it comes to basic things like pacing and story weight and knowing who the antagonist is (yes, I'm still annoyed the big bad's sex changed in S3 from "him" to "her" (Lilith") mid-stream) and what your story is about then I all sorts of frustrated.
at the end too that family seemed a bit too happy.
I was going to write a whole thing on this, but it just didn't fit and I thought it would be too negative piled on top of everything else I was ranting about here.
But seriously YESYESYESYESYESYES!!!! Brian hacked a child into pieces with a knife! I was horrified. Repeatedly stabbing someone is different than pulling a trigger from 15 feet away. To kill someone by stabbing you have to really want to kill them. Puncturing through muscle and bone requires a lot of force (not that I know this from experience or anything, really). Stabbing someone just seems so much more brutal and personal and, gah, you'd be covered in their BLOOD and they'd be thrashing at you and just ... OMG ... badness. D: I was expecting some sort of fall out from this with the family, with Brian, with Sam and Dean other than just a rack focus shot of the girl's face through the grass. They just witnessed a murder of a human child!!!!!!! The family was way too calm about the fact Brian killed someone (not to mention Uncle Ted was just murdered, too), and not just killed them, but ran them through with a knife repeatedly. Seriously, he didn't have to kill her to stop her, he could've just injured her enough to stop her. I'm not saying Show needed to spend extra time on the family, but they could've been shown to be more distraught, shocked, out of sorts. Sam and Dean could've looked a bit more concerned before they left. I was surprised by the levity in the resolution scene and it seemed not quite right to me.
we watched a few old episodes of the show and I'm surprised by all that I've missed.
Cool! Have you now seen every episode from all of the past seasons? I got my sister-in-law hooked on SPN when we visited at X-mas. I'm sending her the S3 box set! So, yes, YAY for full-season DVDs! :)
I do agree about the pacing this season. I wrote up a long rant about it at the end of my recap for 4.10 - the change in narrative focus has been all about the fact that at the start of this season they thought it would be their last and were trying to cram two seasons worth of mytharc into one, but now a fifth season looks more certain they are pulling back to a more measured pace. I much prefer a more measured pace - I want the storyline to follow the characters, not the characters following the storyline. But they haven't got their balance back yet.
Yes, I agree 110%. I think one of the failings of this post was that I didn't talk at all about what I thought this episode was actually about or what it succeeded in doing. Instead I chose to discuss only what I thought it should've/could've been and then used that to launch into my general worries/annoyances about this season as a whole.
The thematic statement this episode was fine. I think it could've been stronger/more intense and brought up a host of other interesting questions if it had been sharpened by a degree or two by having Dean kill the girl instead of Brian. It was the lost potential that was more disappointing than anything else that partially soured the MotW-emotional-journey connection for me and made me push it aside in lieu of more urgent things to discuss.
I wrote up a long rant about it at the end of my recap for 4.10
I haven't read your recap for 4x09 or 4x10 yet. I think I started 4x09 but life called me away. I always enjoy reading them as it helps to see the episode from other people's perspective.
they are pulling back to a more measured pace
For sure. And I'm thankful we'll likely have a S5. :)
I want the storyline to follow the characters, not the characters following the storyline
I think a faster paced story doesn't necessarily mean the plot would outpace the characters or suddenly the story would become plot instead of character driven. I see the plot spinning directly from the characters' (protagonists' and antagonists') wants and needs: What does Lilith want? How is she going to get it? What does that entail? Who does she need to make an alliance with and who is will prevent her from getting what she needs/wants? What actions do those needs/wants manifest as? What does she DO? When is she going to do it--are there time constraints? The same questions can be posed for the boys.
I think the actions, a result of the internal life of the character, become the driving forces that propels the plot forward through the framework of a constructed world with rules and established character relationships. And all of that combined = story. And for me, moving the plot along includes quiet, emotional, mundane and even silly scenes/episodes (not only high-intensity action/dramatic scenes/episodes) because they also reveal things about the characters. And you need the contrast of all the aforementioned to highlight the importance of the others.
When I blabber on about pacing what I'm really getting at is that I want the story to be concentrated so more can be fit in, not that I want important things to be left out at the expense of richness. I'm all about cutting the fat, distilling the story so that what we do see MATTERS and has significant relevance. I want to be an active watcher again and have faith that what was left in was there for a reason not just because the writers were cobbling together a story under a deadline. So perhaps all of this all stems from the fact that in my eyes the writers' room doesn't have as much credibility as it once did and I'm saddened/frustrated and can't help but double guess where we're headed.
I think I think too much. :P Maybe I should just concentrate on how pretty the show is from now on and expect nothing else. Heh!
I recently realized that - even though I enjoyed most of the s04 episodes - I really miss the old episodes. I couldn't have put it into such nice words as you did above but season 4 partly feels quite different and less captivating and convincing than the old episodes. I was and still am willing to give change a chance but since episode 4.10 I'm starting to get really worried about where we are going... I think EK tried to come up with a great story but instead of that just overshoot the mark and lost plausibility.
Well, let's wait and see.
(and *lol* for the conversation :D)
Edited at 2009-01-19 03:43 pm (UTC)
I wouldn't want to torture the poor man. ;) But you think it would help if I put glitter and confetti in the letter? Heh!
I really miss the old episodes
I hate to say this, but there is something that S1/S2 had that seems to be off or different or missing from S4. I can't quite place it, but I think I know what you mean. I get nostalgic for a good brotherly episode when it was just them against the dark and mysterious world of MONSTERS. The arc of S1 is simple and sharp and is a really nice break from the complexity of S4's competing story lines and host of characters. But I suppose with any story, it tends to get more complex through time and invariably the world will expand and become more layered as things unfold. What's questionable is how that's all executed. Hopefully at the end of this season we can say that was a good thing.
Well, let's wait and see.
*crosses fingers*
I agree thought that Dean's revelation should have either been worked in as part of the story or put at the the end of 10 - though if it was me I would have rewritten 10 - 9 was good but 10 just was lame. Not the steaming turd 6 wes but very poorly executed and thought out - though considering the revelations 6 does become slightly better. I still have hopes that 10 may yet be redeemed but I am doubtful
So how considering this story could the authors have worked it in to the flow better? One possibility would be for Dean to hesitate to kill a human. Yeah the fan girls would be screaming about Sam saving him (again) but I think they would have accepted it with the right explanation. And you know Sam would have demanded one, Its one thing to kill monsters after hell but to kill a human especially one which you consider just protecting their territory well, Dean might hesitate wondering where they would go and what would happen to them their, going from a life that was torture and pain into a worse after life. Maybe if they could have gotten them out, gotten them help they wouldn't have been doomed. And Dean could have wondered if any that he tortured and ripped apart were like these two, how many in hell really deserved what they were going through, and what did it say about him. I don't know even that is a little lame
Sigh
Zaz
I interpreted that line to mean Rebecca, the savage kids' mother, was about 20 years old, having hung herself 20 years after her mother, Gibson's wife, died giving birth to Rebecca. However, yourlibrarian also mentioned the kids had to be older because Sam said Rebecca had to be 50 years old, meaning that she'd died about 30 years ago and making the kids ~30 years old. Weird. I think that was a mistake that didn't get edited out.
One possibility would be for Dean to hesitate to kill a human.
llywela13 mentioned the same thing. That would be interesting, something I hadn't thought of. Dean hedging would've certainly showed he was trying to atone for what he did. At least it would've shown he was processing what had happened, which would've been something.
Heh. If you think about it, it's a little strange, but so very true esp. for this fandom.
Wonderful links ... wonderful conversation
Thank you. Glad you thought so. :)
ha
omg, the episode creation meeting of doom...i am so in awe...
and your meta on what they actually filmed was just on target too, dude...
now if only THEY would read this and get a clue...
Re: ha
I like the sound of that. Doom should echo. ;)
Thanks for leaving your thoughts. It's nice to think that all the issues with this season would magically disappear if Kripke and Co. just read fan reactions posts all day long. XD
Quite brave of Show I thought, to take the admission he made at the end of H&H and make it even worse
Yes, Show is quite good at upping the stakes. Always has been and (I hope) always will be. Although now that both Sam and Dean have died, I can't think of anything "worse" than to mentally, emotionally, and physical separate them forever. O_o It'll be interesting what ends up being at stake by the end of the season.
And Sam's time is coming
Let's hope so. It's been in the making since day 1 and seems to be on hiatus since mid-S3.
I loves it, cos we gets pretteh and we gets metah *g*
:D !!! That's a hard combination to beat!
I'm afraid it's the latter...
Very smart breakdown on what's 'wrong' with SPN at the moment. You touched on many points that I sensed but failed to put into words, so thank you! Even though S4 has had quite a few eps that were awesome in their own right, but as a whole... I find myself losing interest.
Also loved your writers' room insight! At least we can still laugh about our Show :)
Part of me would like to think Kripke just likes to be coy but I think you're probably right. I'm not sure which is more worrisome.
...so thank you!
You're welcome. :)
Also loved your writers' room insight! At least we can still laugh about our Show :)
I'm glad you got a laugh out of it. I think it's what I needed, at least. One of the wonderful things about SPN is that it does have a sense of humor about itself and the fact it doesn't try to be more than it is. It's just a scrappy little show about two supernatural-fighting blue-collar boys and their car. And similarly I think it's important for fandom not to take itself and the creative team too seriously. We are what we are and we might as well have some good-spirited fun before the series ends. :)
I loved Family Remains, but I am aware that a lot of my affection for it is owed to the fact that it followed after the mess that was Heaven and Hell. 4.10 left me in a bad place and disconnected me from the characters and 4.11 restored that connection and I was so grateful that I was willing to just overlook its flaws. :)
You're welcome. Thanks for stopping by and leaving your thoughts.
4.10 left me in a bad place and disconnected me from the characters and 4.11 restored that connection and I was so grateful that I was willing to just overlook its flaws. :)
I can understand this. 4x10 wasn't my favorite episode either. And while 4x11 was better than 4x10 and there were a lot of things it did right, good parts of it just sat wrong with me. Perhaps all of the disappointment and frustration I felt with 4x10 as well as some of the overall issues that've been brewing since the start of the season came pouring out once the flood gates opened and 4x11 got the brunt of my disgruntlement. I'm sure I'll be able to watch this episode later in the season and see beyond the what-could've-been.
We still have half a season left, hopefully it'll be everything that's been lacking so far. :)