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Apparently this is what happens when an episode (8x10) leaves me making my bhuz face and saying, “Really?” at the TV

It's all about familiarity and liking what we know we like.Collapse )

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( 63 comments — Leave a comment )
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ash48
Feb. 10th, 2013 11:01 am (UTC)
All I can say is YES and THANK YOU.

Perfectly summed up.

I keep thinking about why the first half didn't work for me and this sums it ALL up. I am just thankful we can look back and say "that section didn't work"...because it means we have now have something that IS working.

xx


bowtrunckle
Feb. 11th, 2013 01:30 pm (UTC)
I'm glad you feel the same way! :)

because it means we have now have something that IS working.

I'm so thankful for this. Let's hope it continues! I want this season to end on a high note.
alekhirhs
Feb. 10th, 2013 12:01 pm (UTC)
Hi,
I came across this through spn newsletter and wanted to add my $0.02.

Ep. 'Torn & Frayed' was just aired in my country and from the beginning of S8, I have not been able to connect with Sam & Dean. The reason I became a fan of this show was because of the whole S1-S5 story arc and the underlying love, camradrie between the two main characters. Watching the conflict between the bros in S8, I was comparing it with the S4/S5 eps and unlike S4/S5, where I could connect with one or both of the bros, S8 left me quite indifferent. That Sam-Amelia storyline is quite boring and as you've said, it may have looked good on paper but doesn't translate well on screen. IMO, even the way JA and JP have played the characters, in some scenes of S8, they appear jaded.It's like even they have reached the point where they don't know how to add another dimension to their respective characters.I just wish the show ends with S8, because it seems to be going around in circles with no definite conclusion in view.

These days I am more of a fan of SPN fic than the show itself.My fav. would always be S1-S5, S6 was boring, S7 was slightly better and S8 is ho-hum.
bowtrunckle
Feb. 13th, 2013 03:18 am (UTC)
The reason I became a fan of this show was because of the whole S1-S5 story arc and the underlying love, camradrie between the two main characters.

I think it's safe to say that's why the majority of fandom watches, which is why when Sam and Dean's relationship is on the rocks and it doesn't make sense, we're not too happy.

Watching the conflict between the bros in S8, I was comparing it with the S4/S5 eps and unlike S4/S5, where I could connect with one or both of the bros, S8 left me quite indifferent.

Yes, like the heart of the show was missing.

it seems to be going around in circles with no definite conclusion in view.

I'd be interested to know when SPN does end, if it'll be the same ending that Kripke planned or if Sam and Dean's story will have taken such a different trajectory in these past seasons that the ending will have to be something else.
(no subject) - percysowner - Feb. 13th, 2013 03:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bowtrunckle - Feb. 13th, 2013 04:17 am (UTC) - Expand
vambrace
Feb. 10th, 2013 01:51 pm (UTC)
Exactly!
bowtrunckle
Feb. 10th, 2013 10:19 pm (UTC)
Whoot! Thanks for reading and leaving me a note. :)
(Deleted comment)
bowtrunckle
Feb. 13th, 2013 03:20 am (UTC)
until there is evidence that Amelia interacts with somebody apart from Sam, I'm going to believe that he imgained her and her world.

Is Don and Amelia's Dad included? They both interacted with Amelia and Sam.

I also appreciate that it was Cas, in 'Torn and Frayed' who said Dean needed Sam, and despite Dean's protests, went out of his way to fetch Sam.

I love how Cas is trying to repent by doing the smallest deeds that end up making a big difference. *hearts Cas*
cuddyclothes
Feb. 10th, 2013 04:21 pm (UTC)
I saw this over on all_spn and toddled over. Excellent essay!

JMHO:
For me, the beginning of S8 was very gratifying. The conflict was so jarring, and it made sense that each brother was in a situation that brought out the basic differences in their nature. Sam being a maintenance man with a girl, house and dog--even though the dog was WAY more interesting than the girl--and Dean having to Navy SEAL his way through Purgatory. In taking such a mindless job, perhaps Sam enjoyed not having to think so much, giving himself a break.

I got that Carver was trying to "reset" the show after the mess that was S7 (Leviathans=worst big bad ever). I liked that he went to the widest possible gap to do so. They love each other, but circumstances pulled them completely apart. Both of them had lost everyone. At least when Dean went to Hell, Sam knew where he was (that is a really strange sentence to type). The lazy writing in "Southern Comfort" so that Dean could express WHAT HE HAD ALREADY MADE CLEAR was annoying. I don't have a problem with them almost hating each other. What I do have a problem with is that I wished that Dean would sit down with Sam and say, "Talk to me," the way he did with Cas. Dean was probably enraged that Sam hadn't fought for him the way he fought for Cas, and he had every right to be.

Sam had every right to feel he'd lost everyone and settle down out of the life. When Dean was out of the life, he was paranoid and unhappy. Sam was unhappy on some level, but it seemed more like accepted grief and loss.

BTW, yes, Sam let Lenore go, but he shot and killed his girlfriend Madison in "Heart". And they even had to burn Bobby's flask so that he would go, because he became vengeful. I could go on and on about this aspect but I'm too sleepy. TWT (Typing when tired).

Edited at 2013-02-10 04:24 pm (UTC)
bowtrunckle
Feb. 13th, 2013 04:02 am (UTC)
For me, the beginning of S8 was very gratifying. The conflict was so jarring, and it made sense that each brother was in a situation that brought out the basic differences in their nature.

I can appreciate what Carver was trying to do, and the idea of putting Sam and Dean in situations that would provide a means for character development was gutsy. I don't have a problem with things being contrasting or abrupt or new, but I want to be able to see and understand how the characters got from point A to B to C, instead of just being told they went from A to C.

What I do have a problem with is that I wished that Dean would sit down with Sam and say, "Talk to me," the way he did with Cas.

*nods*

Sam was unhappy on some level, but it seemed more like accepted grief and loss.

Sam just seemed completely lost, deflated, and desperate to do anything to keep from completely falling apart. Whereas Dean seemed to be able to fake his way through normalcy by appearing more normal and "happy" (a job, bbqs, going to the bar with his neighbor/friend) even though he was angry and miserable and self-medicating with alcohol. It's interesting what a contradiction Sam and Dean are: Sam being the one who seems to wear his heart on his sleeve but lies to everyone he's in a relationship with about who he is, and Dean puts on a great "I'm fine" show on the outside when he's not but tells everybody he's been in a meaningful relationship about his big, fat Hunting secret. Oh, boys.
(no subject) - cuddyclothes - Feb. 13th, 2013 04:20 am (UTC) - Expand
riveroceansea
Feb. 10th, 2013 06:03 pm (UTC)
My two cents:
Unlike Season 4, where Sam was sympathetic toward Dean's time in Hell and he continued to hunt. This season the made the mistake of forcing Sam to be something he hasn't been for a long time--"normal". Although I liked the idea of Sam having that life, he is no more suited to it now than Dean was at the begininning of Season 6. I might have been more convinced if Sam had hooked up with another hunter, even a female one, and continued on. Even kept the fact that he was no longer looking for Dean. It would have been an interesting "So is this another Ruby?" "No. So why are you hanging around with a vampire?".

Thanks for another great meta!
bowtrunckle
Feb. 13th, 2013 03:44 am (UTC)
the made the mistake of forcing Sam to be something he hasn't been for a long time--"normal". Although I liked the idea of Sam having that life, he is no more suited to it now than Dean was at the begininning of Season 6.

That choice was interesting, esp. being that Sam himself effectively said he no longer wanted an apple pie life in "Wishful Thinking". But that being said, I wonder if him being with Amelia wasn't so much about what he wanted rather than what he felt he needed. You know, more like a desperate survivalist thing? Even though he did say he wanted to remain in a relationship with Amelia after Don was discovered undead, it was a hard sell for me being that we never saw Sam and Amelia being happy together.

I agree with you point above. Sam and Dean aren't capable of regular "normal" anymore no matter what they do. I think a "non-hunting" life is a better descriptor as it just implies they're not hunting with no implications of normalcy.

Thanks for another great meta!

Thank you for reading and leaving your awesome thoughts! :)
yourlibrarian
Feb. 10th, 2013 11:27 pm (UTC)
It’s all about execution.

So much yes.

, it would’ve been easy to slip a line in about how Sam didn’t trust Benny because he was worried about Dean falling into the a similar situation that he, Sam, found himself with Ruby, rooting Sam’s suspicions in his concern for Dean. In those first 10 episodes, it would’ve been easy for Dean to sympathize with Sam’s feelings for Amelia being that he had Lisa (and Ben) while Sam was presumed dead and not use Sam’s fear that something had happened to her in such a callous way.

Exactly. It seems like SPN has gone from a series that over-explained everything as if the audience couldn't follow along, to a series that either can't remember its own history or figures everyone can see what they mean without any obvious pointers.

Sam and Dean at odds not only in terms of the plot and surface elements but also in conflict over their basic feelings for each other.

The end of the episode in question seemed to me for all the world like a couple who should have divorced but has instead decided to live together unhappily for the sake of the kids. The problem is that the show gave us two people happier to be apart than together -- each pursuing his own form of life satisfaction. In Sam's case it was starting a home with Amelia. In Dean's it was totally devoted to the warrior lifestyle with a clear goal in mind. Now both just have a lack of emotional ties and ambivalence about where they're headed.
bowtrunckle
Feb. 13th, 2013 03:29 am (UTC)
It seems like SPN has gone from a series that over-explained everything as if the audience couldn't follow along, to a series that either can't remember its own history or figures everyone can see what they mean without any obvious pointers.

Grrr, different show runners. Lack on continuity drives me crazy.

The problem is that the show gave us two people happier to be apart than together

Yes. In the past when Sam and Dean have been apart and we've seen it on screen (or at least seen it heavily inferred/discussed on screen), they were miserable apart and that made all the difference. It's hard to be sympathetic toward characters who are miserable for the sake of misery. It'll be interesting to see if Sam and Dean's feelings as shown at the end of that episode will actually be dealt with again or if SPN is going to act like where Sam and Dean were emotionally for the first 10 episodes either never happened or somehow magically resolved itself off screen.
(no subject) - yourlibrarian - Feb. 13th, 2013 05:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
mashimero
Feb. 11th, 2013 12:53 am (UTC)
I just want to say THANK YOU for summing up all my problems with the first half of S8 but way more concise and elegantly than I ever could have.

And this line: Their love wasn’t the conflict—it created the conflict

YES. SO MUCH YES <3333
bowtrunckle
Feb. 11th, 2013 01:28 pm (UTC)
Thanks so much for leaving such a nice comment! I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt this way. :)
cosmicviolet
Mar. 14th, 2013 06:03 am (UTC)
Hi...I read this when you first posted it but didn't have time to comment. Just wanted to say that I completely agree. I was going to do my own post about why the first half of this season didn't work for me, and maybe I still might (I've been pretty MIA on LJ), but I think I'll just direct people to this post because you've explained it really well. Hope you don't mind if I friend you to keep up with anything else you might have to say. :)
bowtrunckle
May. 19th, 2013 02:12 am (UTC)
Hi! Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. My inbox got backed up and I'm only now attempting to sort it out.

I'm glad you thought whatever I was trying to say was explained well. :) Thanks for leaving me your thoughts and I'm always up for meeting new friends.
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